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Forum:First Chamber
__NEWSECTIONLINK__ In Lovia, Congress is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The First Chamber is one of the two chambers of Congress, in which the Members of the Congress propose bills and debate them. The Second Chamber is where they are eventually voted. Despite the two-chamber system, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see this. As prescribed by Article 6 of the Constitution, all Lovian citizens "may write and propose motions to the Federal Law", that "are presented to the Members of the Congress in the First Chamber." The MOTCs' duty is to "read the motion and form a personal opinion about it. In order to obtain the support of a majority of Members of the Congress, changes may be proposed in the First Chamber." If a majority is likely to be found, the proposer will move the bill to the Second Chamber for a vote. The First Chamber is not a popular assembly where all citizens can express their personal interests. Polling the population ought to happen outside of Congress. __TOC__ 2014.5 Congress Alright, so it looks like this Congress is gonna be made up of the following MOTCs: *Oos Wes Ilava (CCPL) *Charles Jones (CNP) *Lukas Hoffmann (CNP) *Alexei Krasnov (CNP) *Justin Abrahams (UL) *Marcel Cebara (UL) *Nicholas Sheraldin (GP) *Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari (GP) *Dirk Brandt (Independent) *Aina Sarria (Independent) *George Wrexley (Independent) *Jason Rogers (Lovian Unionist Syndicate) If we want to maintain the general list of people in the old Government, we would have approxiamately this: *Prime Minister: Justin Abrahams *Ministry of Agriculture: Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari *Ministry of Commerce: Lukas Hoffmann *Ministry of Culture: Oos Wes Ilava *Ministry of Defense: Lukas Hoffmann *Ministry of Education: Marcel Cebara *Ministry of Energy and Resources: Wrexley *Ministry of Environment: Nicholas Sheraldin *Ministry of Family, Youth, and Elderly: Oos Wes Ilava *Ministry of Finance: Brandt *Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Nicholas Sheraldin *Ministry of Health: Justin Abrahams *Ministry of Justice: Charles Jones *Ministry of Labour: Rogers *Ministry of Tourism and Sport: Sarria *Ministry of Transportation: Alexei Krasnov *Speaker of the Congress: Nicholas Sheraldin As we can see, we have two openings (Minister of Finance and Minister of Energy/Resources). There has been talk of me assuming the position of Minister of Finance, which I would readily accept. Additionally, we have three other new MOTCs w/o Ministries to fill. I would like to see ministers of the same party relinquish their ministry to these new MOTCs along general ideological lines. I think it is safe to say that I would caucus with the CNP, while Wrexley and Rogers would caucus with the UL and Sarria with the GP. Therefore, according to my thought, Sarria would take on a position held by Sheraldin (as he holds two), and Wrexley/Rogers would take on roles held by Cebara or Abrahams. I would also like to ask a few constitutional questions: #According to the Constitution, the elections should've lasted three weeks. That should be changed for two reasons: it a) buys us some time (so it doesn't look like are inactive) and b) allows us to be constitutional. (That would have Elections end July 21) #According to the Constitution, there is not a date for innauguration of a Special Congress, but I think it would be 11 days after the last day of elections. That would put it at August 1, which is about modern day. ##We should have a new coalition formed, according to Article 8, section 2.2, which consists of 50% of the MOTCs. ###To me, it would look like a CNP-CCPL-Brandt coalition and a UL-GP-LSU-Sarria-Wrexley coalition, making the UL-GP coalition the main one in the nation with 58.667% of the MOTCs. #Since we had special elections as per Article 8 section 1.4, is this the start of a new Congress (ie Second Congress of 2014 or the like) or is it a continuation of the 2014 Congress? ##If it is a new Congress, we should elect a new PM. In fact, I think we should do this anyways. Just read Article 8, 2.1 to 2.3 to see what I mean. Anyhow, thanks for reading this huge chunk of text. We can kinda work it out as things get going, but I think all of this needs to be addressed. 05:53, August 3, 2014 (UTC) Please note: All of this is not spoken from the Perspective of Brandt, but from my personal opinion ((Also, we really broke a decent number of laws by chosing to go with just us and not the full Congress of 100 people. I understand our elections didn't take place as they normally would have, but I think that we can do a small set of elections as per normal in order to get to the 100 number. The laws we broke are: *Constitution, Article 8, 1.1 *Constitution, Article 8, 3.2 *Public Law, Article 5 section 1 So, I really think we need to do the voting thing.)) 06:04, August 3, 2014 (UTC) Great to see the new Congress getting underway! Regarding Cabinet roles, I would like to continue my role as Minister for Education, as I've got some new ideas for Lovia's education system that I would like to implement. Also, I think we should definitely involve some new users/characters in the Cabinet. I'd be happy to give my role as Minister of Labour to a new user, possibly Rogers or Sarria. Frijoles333 TALK 08:04, August 4, 2014 (UTC) How about my above proposal. Traspes was interested in sport so we could give her that, Labour gan go to Crystal, he'll like that, Brandt gets Finance as he wanted and Wrexley can have energy, which is the other open ministry. Plus we could also hold special elections for the speaker if there are more people interested in that position. HORTON11: • 15:10, August 4, 2014 (UTC) What about the need to bring the count up to 100 members? Are we just going to each have 8.3 votes/people? I think that is a bit confusing, so we would need some people to have 9 characters and some only have 8. Thanks, 19:46, August 4, 2014 (UTC) This is not a formar full congress so we do not need 100 members. HORTON11: • 20:07, August 4, 2014 (UTC) Everybody will get just one vote in the Second Chamber, with a total of 12 votes to be cast. --OuWTB 09:03, August 5, 2014 (UTC) Yeah, that makes sense. HORTON11: • 14:55, August 5, 2014 (UTC) May I say I support this proposal for allocating ministerial positions with one exception, I would prefer a different prime minister. Nothing personal but I feel we need someone who is better at handling tough situations like we found ourselves in recently, and especially someone who can really drive a government. I would advocate Oos as first choice however if he would not I would either prefer to converse with others or put myself up to the role. Despite my recent absence I am now finding time to return and be a regular contributor. And I would hope no one can doubt that I have not driven this wiki forwards, not alone of course, but as part of the many great contributors who have made this wiki the delight it is. I would stand by a program of reinvigorating the wiki once more with the likes of reximus as well as older members and pushing the wiki in an active direction, encouraging participation. Of course, only if Oos would not take the position. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:01, August 10, 2014 (UTC) Operation: Clean Slate Considering that finally we might actually have an active congress, could we please begin by laying out our plans for the coming term. I believe first things first should be to mop up the mess of this stupid invasion and pass laws to stop all the madness from happening all over again. Further we should move to reform the political system in Lovia so that it rewards interaction and contribution. I believe that we, acting in the best interests of Lovia (the wikia and the nation) can make it so that we once again debate policy and issues of society, governance and business rather than issues of war, rebellion and riots. Below is a more detailed plan that I will alter as time goes on and more contributions are added. This step by step plan will be a combination of executive actions on various levels as well as legislative actions. I'll cross things off the list as we go on and complete actions. After the repairs and reforms are done, I believe we can move forwards and look to our own party political policies. I'd also like to just say that I would again like to say that I would support the above government proposal if I or Oos was Prime Minister. I feel that I would be the better choice, simply to drive the repair and re-establishment of this wikia and nation but would feel comfortable under Oos if people would prefer. All I can say is that despite a lot of talk, little has happened. I feel I can make things happen and if not then you can boot me out. Either way, I feel we need to make a decision and actually start actioning things. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 18:12, August 10, 2014 (UTC) OPERATION: CLEAN SLATE the groups responsible for each action are in brackets #'Establish government.' ##'Debate in First Chamber.' (CONGRESS) ##'Proposal and vote in Second Chamber.' (CONGRESS) #'Mop up of issues.' ##'Blackout across Oceana is lifted.' (MINISTER OF ENERGY AND RESOURCES) ##'All dissenting or uncooperative government institutions and politicians as well as other groups to accept the current Lovian government and its direction under pain of arrest in return for pardons. Including the revocation of any executive or legislative action as well as demobilisation or disbandment of groups formed during the crisis that could cause potential future issues. Reasserting of control by the Federal Government over unmanned institutions.' (CONGRESS/OTHER GROUPS) ##*State of Sylvania ##*State of Clymene ##*Sofasi Citizen Union ##*Southern Cross Alliance ##*Lovian Land Army ##*Federal Police ##*Sylvanian Militia ##*Lovian National Army ##*UNLOR forces ##'Assisted relocation of people fleeing violence (particularly Clymeni political dissidents and Oceana refugees) back to their homes. Assisted relocation of those recruited into fighting forces (particularly the conscripts of the Lovian National Army) back to their homes.' (STATE GOVERNMENTS/GOVERNORS) ##'Amnesty for collection of weapons. All weapons without license are to be handed over to the Lovian Government, people suspected of hoarding dangerous caches of weapons are liable for arrest and trial.' (MINISTER OF DEFENCE and MINISTER OF JUSTICE) ##'Issue of arrest notices for members and associates of destabilising factions and militias. Investigation into finding possible criminals.' (MINISTER OF DEFENCE and MINISTER OF JUSTICE) ##*Communist Revolutionary Union ##'Dispatch of emergency aid to all damaged communities by State Governments. Ministry of Finance to assist in funding aid.' (STATE GOVERNMENTS/GOVERNORS/MINISTER OF FINANCE) ##*Clymene ##**Cornwall ##**Plains ##**Rosendorp ##**Sofasi ##**Xiandu ##*Oceana ##**Boynitz ##**Coldhill ##**Dubnitz ##**East Hills ##**Heighnow ##**Hurbanova ##**Magna Augusta ##**Newmouth ##**Westwall ##**Tshadsa #'Other supportive Ministerial and Governor Actions' ##'Damaged community funding. Create state funds for repairs, building projects and enterprises in damaged communities to help rebuild. Ministry of Finance to help support funding.' (STATE GOVERNMENTS/GOVERNORS/MINISTER OF FINANCE) #'Legislate for a more stable Lovia' ##'Completely reform the outdated acts in the Criminal Law Book to allow for better control of firearms, more political independence of the FP and a separate act to control the formation of militia as well as define the difference between a militia and a security company allowing private enterprise to act in favour of stability.' ##*Federal Police Act - Make the federal police independent of the Ministry of Defence and Congress, rather make its actions controlled by this legislation and give congress nominal control over its funding but allow it to manage itself. This will stop the Federal Police being used for political manoeuvres and will add another interactive aspect of Lovia. I will write the Act for everyone to put under scrutiny. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS) ##*Firearms Act - Make the act an actual regulation of firearms, not a free for all for hunters. This will simply tighten up security in Lovia and make weaponising of society near impossible. I plan to also regulate the manufacture of firearms which currently is not regulated, which is really, quite bad. Also make the militia bit into a separate act. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS) ##*Militia Act - This act will govern militias, defining exactly what they are and not allowing for loopholes. This will once and for all deal with our longest standing issue to stability by completely supporting prosecution and providing a framework to deal with suspected militia. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS) ##*Security Company Control Act - This act will regulate security companies and make them a viable tool for anyone to use to protect their businesses, property and communities as well be a way for us to control the desire for people to have militias and a way to control and raise funds from security companies. This act will also contain a part denoting that these companies will be required to be vetted and receive training and cooperate with the Federal Police (such as a legal requirement to report any suspected unlawful act), so as to weed out extremists and also make the security companies a tool for having more eyes on the streets so to speak. This act will contain a tax (whether it is on profit or a poll tax on the amount of employed security guards, my preference, is up to debate) on security companies to discourage people making personal armies. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS) ##*National Levy Act - This act will allow for the establishment of a temporary Lovian Emergency Force in times of crisis (this could be a peacekeeping force/humanitarian force/military force) and will establish the structures under which such a force would be created and operate eliminating personal armies once and for all. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS) #'Pass reforms to create a more inclusive Lovia' ##*Congress Reform Act - This act will separate IC elections from OOC, the IC elections will be very similar to the current form but will formalise elections properly and add in some basic rules and guidelines as well as making it a proper party list. The OOC elections will not be elections so to speak but will be a simple assignment of a seat to active users every six months, further each OOC member of congress will control an equal share of the IC congress so that we still have players controlling characters. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS) ##*Constitutional Reform Act - This act will reform the method of voting in Congress, having the first chamber hold proposals (like the moment) but requiring a certain amount of time along with a seconder for each proposal before it passes to the second chamber. In the second chamber there will be a generous voting window in which members of congress may vote, only pro and con votes will count, abstains are abstains and therefore not counted like in every other legislature in the world. At the end of the voting window, voting will close and votes cannot be changed. Should it be refused or time out, the act must then wait a period of time before it can be proposed again. Should it be passed then the proposal will be enshrined in law. #'Collecting funds for actions performed' ## Discussion Almost done. Will write down list of legislation required. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 18:12, August 10, 2014 (UTC) Also I can't stress how much we need to reform. The last time this happened, my calls to reform were only partly heard and now we find ourselves back at square two (not square one, we have moved on, just not enough). Also some planned acts have been added. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 18:45, August 10, 2014 (UTC) Most of this seems good. All active militas and armed groups active during the war should be disbanded as should the Lovian National Army. IF we do want a permanent armed force to deter future invasion we'll need something much better organized and of course congressional approval. HORTON11: • 19:25, August 10, 2014 (UTC) :Glad we're on agreement on the first issue. And I would support disbandment of the militias/armed groups including the LLA. On a permanent armed force, if we did go there, I would politically separate them from Congress in a similar manner to the police, so they are reasonably independent and cannot be used as a political weapon except are given general orders by Congress which their leadership then carry out. I think the key thing about most of the planned reforms above is separation of military and political powers. I mean it's too easy for people to just form a militia, call them hunters and arm them which is incredibly destabilising for Lovia. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 22:15, August 10, 2014 (UTC) ::Personally I'm not too keen on a permanent military, but given our propensity for armed conflict it's something we do need. Of course a permanent military would not be a body under congress, as most militaries are not. But, I would not want to have one military figure wielding control of the armed forces, as was seen with Bennett. HORTON11: • 20:34, August 11, 2014 (UTC) :::I would agree on all cases. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 22:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC) I'm interested in seeing how this will develop. However, as time is limited to me, I would prefer not to take on the post of PM. --OuWTB 09:46, August 11, 2014 (UTC) :Understood, I'll present myself as an alternative then. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 22:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC) :I am opposed to you being PM in an OOC manner. Your party, my party, and the CCPL, who are all the "Rightists" are outnumbered by the "Leftist" group of GP/LUS/RI/UL. Therefore, a politician from their side of the aisle should be chosen. Furthemore, I would like to stress that this Government is violating the Rules of the Wiki, which state that we must follow the Constitution. We are not doing so, in direct violation '''of the Site Regulations. 08:13, August 14, 2014 (UTC) ::CCPL is not rightist. It's views on the economical side are more leftist than rightist. Also, our government is leftist, so we need a rightist PM is a fallacy. We need the most competent, motivated, and experienced user as PM, as it currently stands that would be either Kunarian or me. --OuWTB 09:19, August 14, 2014 (UTC) :::@Rex: First of all in Lovia while we occasionally fall into arguments over left or right, we are not bound to these limits. This isn't america where we're all red or blue, we are a forwards thinking democracy and our parties co-operate often in various areas. Also I think you'll find that there are areas where UL and the CNP agree where the CCPL don't or where RI and CCPL clash and you and the RI don't. We've also long had Oos as Prime Minister as a grand coalition and before that we had Villanova, none of these times were the Prime Ministers leaders of one massive "leftist" block, in fact the three last Governments where largely pushed through by a grand coalition of the CCPL, CNP, GP and UL/Labour in cooperation with other parties. :::I'm really sorry but I completely disagree with you OOC and IC because its a completely limiting and negative viewpoint and suggests we don't work together. The last time we had that viewpoint, the government was composed of almost one party entirely while others were left to rot on the side. :::And three last things: 1. To be honest we don't do OOC and IC like that here, we roleplay but we don't say "Oh you can't do that because I don't think your character would" and limit people. 2. From an OOC and IC perspective I am proposing this government, OOC because I have the drive and willpower and have written a lot of legislation for this website and so therefore the skills and IC because the CNP are the largest party and want to work with the rest of the Lovian parties to really drive Lovia back into repair. 3. Honestly, I have the reforms (all of which will be scrutinised and non-partisan), I have the energy and skill to make the legislation needed and to fix up Lovia, but to get them through it would be nice to be in the driving seat for this and that's all I'm asking and if I do a good job hopefully I'll be kept on and if not then I'll accept a replacement in January (which is only 3 and a bit months away anyways). Hoffmann KunarianTALK' 17:09, August 14, 2014 (UTC) :::@Oos: Thanks for your support. Hoffmann Kunarian'TALK' 17:11, August 14, 2014 (UTC) :::Ok, thanks for the clarification, Kun. I was just thinking of this like the OTL (Althist mentality FTW!) regular UK, the only other nation whose politics I follow that is organized something similar to Lovia. I have no issues with you being PM, I just thought it would be implausible. That's all. Move the cabinet proposals to Second Chamber, or not yet? 06:03, August 15, 2014 (UTC) Added more. Hoffmann Kunarian'TALK' 20:35, August 28, 2014 (UTC) :''further each OOC member of congress will control an equal share of the IC congress so that we still have players controlling characters. That's a bit vague. Could you explain what you mean by that? --OuWTB 09:06, August 29, 2014 (UTC) ::Because each OOC MotC will have an equal representation in congress, my logic would be to divide up the IC characters who are MotCs between the OOC MotCs so that if you, I and Horton were the only members of the Congress for instance the IC congress would be divided as such: ::*Kunarian - 33 MotC ::*Oos - 33 MotC ::*Horton - 33 MotC ::*Non-aligned - 1 MotC (this would be the one IC MotC that never votes or participates) ::However this would not mean 33 CNP, 33 CCPL and 33 UL. IC elections and division of congress into parties happens before we actually assign IC MotC to OOC MotCs. Basically the whole system would be the same (but slightly simpler for IC voting) except we would divide up the congress between active participators every 6 months. I hope I've explained it well. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 17:05, August 29, 2014 (UTC) I'm assuming that better wording and more detailed legislation will be added for the above proposed acts, esp. toward the Security Company Control Act, as I don't want to see security companies becoming a proxy for or taking the place of militias. HORTON11: • 14:29, September 1, 2014 (UTC) The figures behind the plan Cost should not limit our efforts for the reconstruction, but it is something we need to consider. Firstly we need to determine an estimated cost for every point in the proposal above (plus any alternatives or added points) and then we need to determine sources of funding, such as taxation, foreign aid (ex. USAID, IDEA and other wikination aid), donations and private fundraising, wartime confiscations and others and perhaps determine how much each source wold realistically contribute. HORTON11: • 15:59, September 2, 2014 (UTC) 001. Damage Assessment I think there is some need to assess the damage from the invasion. We need to look at the invasion from (at least) the following perspectives: *Cost of human life/casualties of civilians *Damage to housing *Damage to industry *Damage to agriculture *Damage to public infrastructure **Schools **Transportation **etc. Then, we need to assess any potentialities for a court case (ICJ, mayhaps) or at least how much we managed to confiscate. Then comes the distribution/reparations of what was lost. I think that we have a couple of options on how we can do this: #All funds that were confiscated will be split evenly amongst all adult citizens of Lovia, regardless of if their property was damaged. #All funds that were confiscated will be sent to all adult citizens of Lovia that can prove that their property was damaged. The funds can be split either: ##According to cost of damage, or ##According to cost of damage in relation to net worth, or ##Evenly amongst all claimants #Pay first for all medical injuries and a set amount of money for any deaths to the survivors of the deceased (both civilian and FP) ##Addditionally, perhaps give veterans benefits #Put a 6 month (or similar length) freeze on all taxes in Lovia. This will make it profitable for companies to make big investments. The best way to do any sort of fund transering would be via the Ministry of Finance, which would be happy to coordinate surveying of damage with any other applicable Ministries who wish to survey their respective fields. My personal suggestion is to first do #3 (pay all bills of wounded/dead), then #2.2 (give funds proportionate to damage in relation to net worth), and additionally enact #4. If we look at the Public Law Art. 13.1, section 1.3, it states that Congress may not change the budget after April 1, but I think that we can gain a majority of people here who are willing to vote yes on overruling that provision in order to cut taxes and increase tariffs to attempt to maintain as much of a balanced budget as possible. Now, you may ask "Doesn't raising tariffs increase prices for consumers?" and that answer is generally correct, but it also is protectionistic. As much as I hate government intervention, moderately high tariffs can do us well in a time like this. Additionally, we can keep low tariffs with allies who helped us vs Burenia (ie Brunant, Traspes, Prasia). 00:11, August 4, 2014 (UTC) Discussion My fellow MOTCs, please react to this. As we sit around waiting, there are many internal refugees and people who lost everything due to the Burenian invasion. We cannot wait any longer. 06:25, August 15, 2014 (UTC) Any thoughts, please? 23:21, August 21, 2014 (UTC) Yes, I like this idea. But give money only to the people that were affected I think. Traspes (talk) 01:15, August 22, 2014 (UTC) I agree with Traspes. Lovia was not the aggressor in this war, therefore they are not responsible. If anyone should pay, it's Burenia. Also, a six month tax freeze would indeed enable companies to make more investments, but it would also cripple our government's funds for reconstruction and medical treatment. --OuWTB 09:36, August 22, 2014 (UTC) Whatever we confiscate from the Bruenians may not likely be much. A few military vehicles and equipment would be the bulk of that. Like Traspes and Oos we should really be supporting those affected by the fighting, ie. injured, dead family member, lost home etc. Your ideas 2 and 3 are good but we'd most definately need to keep taxes in order to fund our support. One thing you looked over which would also be of help if foreign aid. I'm sure Cettatie and other wikiantions could donate money to Lovia and the UN, World Bank or others could contribute some financial aid. Brunant's IDEA would be able to give especially development aid, in reconstructing schools and community buildings, bringing people from abroad as volunteers and helping set up programs to assist the needy, and I think Traspes or some other nation has a similar development agency that could help. HORTON11: • 13:12, August 22, 2014 (UTC) Mäöres will probably also be willing to help Lovia, as a large number of people in the affected areas (especially Oceana) is from Limburgish/Mäöreser decent. --OuWTB 14:18, August 22, 2014 (UTC) Yes, that would be good. I was also thinking, perhaps an "IWO for Lovia" CD with different wikination musicians in which the profits could go towards helping Lovia. HORTON11: • 14:38, August 22, 2014 (UTC) This plan is incredibly unrealistic and a very blanket approach to what should be a carefully managed local issue. Only a few places (mainly in Oceana and Clymene) were actually damaged and even then only Plains came under serious property damaging fire. Agriculture, industry and public infrastructure is by and large unaffected, as most forces were not fighting a battle of attrition but manoeuvre warfare. Further the suggestion that we would raise enough funds through court cases. AGAINST WHO? Most criminals who committed crimes in the conflict are poorer people, fining them will give us about enough money to restore a few people's houses in Plains, not near enough for the mega compensation you are suggesting. We can give the free medical treatment to everyone, we already built that in through state healthcare systems. But a tax freeze? no way. Lovia has barely any taxes at the moment and freezing it would only make this debt inducing issue worse. We should instead encourage people to pick up the pieces, we have some of the lowest costs to start up businesses and carry out repair work on properties in the world simply because of our tax and regulation simplicity (some might even say absence). Lovia can and will revive itself we just need to make sure we are here to support it. We should take a reasoned approach like I am suggesting in Operation: Clean Slate and make sure that we have a solution that isn't a blanket aid handout but instead delegate the issue to the relevant powers (Governors and Ministers) to co-operate and form their own aid solutions that fit their local issues caused by the invasion. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:57, August 22, 2014 (UTC) :On the matter of foreign aid, we should reach out now and get what help we can. Foreign aid could make all the difference between a quick or slow recovery. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:58, August 22, 2014 (UTC) ::Cettatie can provide several million euros in aid, but that'd be about it. The country does not have a foreign aid office. Brunant's IDEA can provide long-term reconstruction assistance, in education, community projects technical and such. HORTON11: • 17:06, August 22, 2014 (UTC) :: 002. Operation: Clean Slate (stage 1) We must move quickly, hopefully we can have passed some reforms and be onto more by the end of September. Dealing with various groups and organisations Firstly we must have statements recognising and accepting the current Lovian government sent to Congress by the following dissenting groups so as to bring order back to Lovia, else they shall be put under arrest: *'State of Sylvania' ::The State of Sylvania does hereby recognise and accept the current Lovian government. - Lukas Hoffmnn - 18:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC) *'State of Clymene' ::(Clymeni Governor to make statement) *'Federal Police' ::The Federal Police submits and recognises the current Lovian government. - Dimitri Kalinnikov - 18:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC) Further the following groups must recognise and accept the current Lovian government and sent a statement saying such to congress but also disband as a result of that statement, once again on pain of arrest: *'Sofasi Citizen Union' ::(Group leader to make statement) *'Southern Cross Alliance' ::(Group leader to make statement) *'Lovian Land Army' ::The Lovian Land Army will disband in respect of the demands and recognise the current Lovian government. - Paul Kameron (benefactor) - 18:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC) *'Sylvanian Militia' ::The Sylvanian Militia will stand down and recognise and accept the current Lovian government. - Joseph Fletcher - 18:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC) *'Lovian National Army' ::The Lovian National Army was disbanded prior to this meeting. - Justin Abrahams - 19:21, September 3, 2014 (UTC) *'UNLOR Forces' ::(Group leader to make statement) If these statements are not made by the 30th of September, all of the offending groups shall be arrested. Ministerial duties I would like secondly for all Ministers referenced below to carry out their executive duties concerning the plan: *'Minister of Energy and Resources' (George Wrexley) *#End the blackout across Oceana put in place by the previous Minister. *'Ministers of Justice and Defence' (Charles Jones, Lukas Hoffmann) *#Issue an amnesty for collection of unlicensed weapons from all parties, any groups suspected of not having handed in unlicensed weapons by the 30th September will have their properties searched and will be arrested. *#Arrest the members of the destabilising faction known as the "Communist Revolutionary Union", eliminate any trace of the organisation. Investigate and prosecute concerning actions during their attempt at seizing Clymene. *'Minister of Finance' (Dirk Brandt) *#Give credit to the State Governments of Oceana and Clymene so that they can carry out the necessary aid. Keep track of how much credit is given(VITAL). Collect the foreign aid that is secured by the Minister of Foreign Relations and offset that against the credit given to the State Governments. *'Minister of Foreign Affairs' (??? < insert GP character) *#Secure foreign aid from allied nations. These actions should be started before the 14th of September or the offending Ministers shall be replaced by active members of government. State aid efforts Thirdly the Governors of Oceana and Clymene should work with their local government as well as other non-governmental organisations to co-ordinate aid to the following settlements that were affected by the rebellion and invasion: *'Oceana' *#Boynitz *#Coldhill *#Dubnitz *#East Hills *#Heighnow *#Hurbanova *#Magna Augusta *#Newmouth *#Westwall *#Tshadsa *'Clymene' *#Cornwall *#Plains *#Rosendorp *#Sofasi *#Xiandu Governors should ensure that clear and traceable records are kept of spending. Money may only be spent on aid as described below. Aid to be distributed: *Medical aid to heal injuries sustained during the fighting (across the warzones) **Less affected states (Kings, Seven, Sylvania) are to provide what medical support that they can spare to assist in medical support *Monetary support for rent and necessary housing equipment is to be provided to those who lost homes (largely in Plains, due to the heavy fire carried out there) **All state governments are to find rent-able properties to provide the needed housing spaces *Free rationed food is to be distributed by the Oceana and Clymeni governments to those unable to feed themselves **Purchases of food from Lovian producers and businesses will be completely subsidised by the Ministry of Finance and should be taken in preference over purchases of food from outside of Lovia **Purchases of food from outside Lovia will be 75% subsidised by the Ministry of Finance **Should exploitation of the need to purchase food by a producer or business be suspected to be in practise, the Federal Police may detain suspects until the end of the aid provisions or for two weeks within which they may be taken to court and fined or have property confiscated as punishment *(DISCUSS AND ADD MORE) This aid provisions will continue until 1st December 2014, by which time a permanent solution should be put in place by Congress. Returning the displaced to their homes Finally, the Federal Police will take it upon themselves to ensure that the refugees across the nation are safely returned to their home. The Minister of Defence will oversee the strategy for this. All displaced peoples are to be returned to their homes before 1st November 2014. Discussion Discuss! We must action this within the week. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 18:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC) :Just wanted to start off the discussion by welcoming the actions put forward by Mr. Hoffmann. Also, in my capacity as Governor of Kings, I would like to confirm that our state government will assist Operation Clean Slate wherever possible. The Kings Healthcare Service is ready to provide medical aid, and will be sending a team of doctors and nurses to affected communities in Oceana and Clymene to assist in providing emergency healthcare. The Kings State Government also pledges to provide temporary shelter to citizens of Plains whose homes were destroyed during conflict in the town. Frijoles333 TALK 19:08, September 2, 2014 (UTC) :The Ministry of External Relations and Traspesian Cooperation Agency can help. Traspes (talk) ::In general, very good :) Though, I'd like to add to the monetary support: those who lost their homes should also be given the most necessary house equipment (think about a simple stove, etc.) and perhaps we may also need food supplies in Oceana and Clymene. --OuWTB 10:15, September 3, 2014 (UTC) :::Agreed. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 10:32, September 3, 2014 (UTC) ::::IDEA is Brunant will also be able to provide technical assistance in regards to infrastructure which is of great need in affected areas (think schools, medical, community buildings and services). @ House equipment, we can also do with a large fundraising drive, not only of cash but of needed goods. Supermarkets can place collection bins and we can start a sort of Ice Bucket Challenge type thing to get high-profile people to undertake and raise both awareness and funds for the affected people in Lovia. In my school many years ago we did this fundraising thing for children in Central America where the students put together little packs of toys, books etc and we could involve even schoolkids in unaffected areas to reach out to children in Oceana and Clymene as well. HORTON11: • 18:32, September 3, 2014 (UTC) (reset) Glad to have IDEA on board can Abrahams, due to his connections, get them over asap? Fundraising drives are second priority to the actual actions but should be pursued if you have spare time. Also we won't get a hyper thing like the ice bucket challenge but I do think we will be able to effectively advertise to our wikination allies population so that we can get support. Also cool idea for getting schools in unaffected areas to support them, Minister of Education should co-ordinate that effort. I think it might also not be a bad idea to create a government directed volunteer force to help, I also advise state governors to make maximum usage of volunteers both from the state and without. I also plan to make a plea through various media outlets, and encourage other Ministers to consider where their Ministries might be able to contribute to efforts. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 19:29, September 3, 2014 (UTC) : Abrahams has no connection with Brunant, don't know why people keep on believing that. But, user horton11 (as the respective government people) can help you out). HORTON11: • 13:06, September 4, 2014 (UTC) :@Hoffmann: I'll be more than happy to co-ordinate the effort Frijoles333 TALK 21:16, September 3, 2014 (UTC) All current comments have been taken into account. State aid efforts have been updated. Log of actions has been added to better see what's happening. Glad that this is off to a great start, I for one think that the medical support should be universal from the lesser affected states and credit Mr Cebara with this suggestion, and the same with housing provision assistance. If we don't have more people involved in discussions and actions by tomorrow I'll send all current Members of Congress a message. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:55, September 3, 2014 (UTC) So... We still gon' do summing? :P --OuWTB 10:28, September 6, 2014 (UTC) :Yes. People just seem to have slowed down. I'm going to be doing a lot over this weekend. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:24, September 6, 2014 (UTC) ::Haha okay :P --OuWTB 15:50, September 6, 2014 (UTC) :::Well most of us do have other things as well. It's my final year before university so I have lots of work to do. HORTON11: • 14:38, September 7, 2014 (UTC) Call me a pessimist or whatever, but I just don't see us as having the needed money in order to fund all of this. Quite simply, we get very little from taxing and we spend a ton on social programs. We need to cut social programs. 06:16, September 14, 2014 (UTC) :I'm pretty sure our wikination friends will help us out. --OuWTB 07:21, September 14, 2014 (UTC) ::We might also be able to make Burenia pay at least a part of it. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:38, September 18, 2014 (UTC) :::I don't think Ankélot'apca will agree to that though. --OuWTB 05:04, September 19, 2014 (UTC) ::::Does anyone over here happen to be good at convincing Burenians? Perhaps by somehow proving Lovian English not to be a weird language? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:27, September 19, 2014 (UTC) :::::Burenians should have to pay (as good ol' Uncle Oos suggested in August) and I'm sure they'll pay if they don't want to risk total military invasion. No peace treaty or even a formal ceasefire has been announced, so we could go with that option. Or, try and integrate them into the wikiantional community; pay for the damage they have done and you'll discover the benefits of being friendly with other nations. Or, we can talk soft AND carry the big stick. HORTON11: • 15:08, September 19, 2014 (UTC) ::::::A would strongly oppose military intervention in Burenia. The costs, not only financial, are way too high. If we want to put pressure on Burenia, the only thing we can do is threaten with international sanctions. --OuWTB 10:09, September 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::::Of course we'd never invade, it'd just be the threat of war that could be used as a tool. We can threaten them with sanctions, but Burenia has no connection with other nations so it's hard to belive they'd have funds or interests abroad. HORTON11: • 14:36, September 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::Burenia does have connections with Chvarqvia and Tagog though. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:21, September 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::That's like being buddies with Transnistria, I was referring to real and better developed nations. HORTON11: • 16:35, September 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::That's true. Maybe they also are friends with North Korea and China? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:45, September 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Possibly North Korea, but China would be harder to have as an ally; they wouldn't be likely to align themselves with another rogue state. HORTON11: • 17:00, September 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::With the UNGA meeting right now, I am curious: Are we part of the UN? If so, we could probably get them to make reparations through the UNSC to some extent. 00:12, September 26, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Yes, we are part of the UN :) --OuWTB 05:13, September 26, 2014 (UTC) Log of Actions taken during the first stage This is a log of Actions taken by Congress, State Governors/Governments and Ministers during the first stage as well as other things happening that affect the crisis. This is just here so that we can all state what we are doing, where we are at and as an audit trail. Plus feel free to use it for roleplay although I'll make sure that it keeps on the general crisis we are facing. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:51, September 3, 2014 (UTC) *2nd of September **Discussion starts in First Chamber after Prime Minister Hoffmann lays down first stage of Clean Slate **Kings Governor Marcel Cebara pledges medical support as well as housing for those who lost their homes in the siege of Plains *3rd of September **A dialogue opens with Traspes on possible aid efforts **Oceana Governor Oos Wes Ilava supports additional support for refugees to provide them with essential housing goods 003. Establishing a PM and government Here, MOTCs will vote for their preferred PM. The chosen one will then propose a government. If there's not a clear choice, multiple government proposals can be made. Vote for your preferred candidate and include the number of votes. --Semyon 17:37, April 30, 2015 (UTC) Candidates *Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky (independent). Main aims: exclude CCPL and allied parties from government, abolish monarchy and Heretowship, work towards a socialist society, trial war criminals, establish two new ministries (Science and Equality). ** (6 votes) --Semyon 17:37, April 30, 2015 (UTC) ** (10 votes, but rename Equality to Social Affairs) —TimeMaster (talk • ) 17:46, April 30, 2015 (UTC) ***That's negotiable è. --Semyon 17:51, April 30, 2015 (UTC) *Justin Abrahams (United Left). Main aims: Work with parties across the spectrum to bring much-needed change and improvement to Lovia, not only socially but economicaly as well. ** (11 votes) HORTON11: • 17:40, April 30, 2015 (UTC) ** (5 votes) Traspes - Dianna Bartol 14:11, May 1, 2015 (UTC) ** 4 votes. 77topaz (talk) 22:57, May 1, 2015 (UTC) *Neil Hardy (CCPL). Main aims: Bring much-wanted and overdue change to the Constitution in areas. ** (7 votes) Happy65 18:10, April 30, 2015 (UTC) ** (12+3=15 votes) --OuWTB 07:56, May 1, 2015 (UTC) ** (3 votes) MartijnM (talk) 18:17, May 2, 2015 (UTC) ** (7 votes) Bart K (talk) 11:46, May 3, 2015 (UTC) ** (2 votes) Sithlent (talk) 15:21, May 3, 2015 (UTC) *Lukas Hoffmann (CNP). Main aims: Reform the Constitution to lower the effect of inactive Congresspersons, Introduce State investment funds to boost the economy, Strengthen Trade Unions and increase the power of workers, Create a national health service on a national level, Create laws and bolster policing to end the militia threat, Introduce social housing to house the most needy in society. ** (7 votes) Hoffmann KunarianTALK 20:42, April 30, 2015 (UTC) ** (3 votes) Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:28, May 2, 2015 (UTC) ** (7 votes) Bart K (talk) 15:32, May 2, 2015 (UTC) ** (4 votes) --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 09:53, May 3, 2015 (UTC) ** (5 votes) —TimeMaster (talk • ) 12:47, May 3, 2015 (UTC) *Vladek Przwalsky (OSB). Main aims: exclude AMWM and other communist and centralist beasts from government, abolish gay rights and murder laws, work towards an independent Oceana, trial corrupt politicians, establish a new ministry (Oceana Independence) ** (3 votes) --OuWTB 11:56, May 1, 2015 (UTC) *Katie Conroy (LF). Main aims: Reform the Constitution to ensure that state governments work for everyone, resolve the housing crisis in Plains, legislate for a National Health Service, to end the disparity between state healthcare services, remove the homophobic and misogynistic CCPL from government ** (7 votes) -- Frijoles333 TALK 18:23, May 1, 2015 (UTC) ** (5 votes) —TimeMaster (talk • ) 12:47, May 3, 2015 (UTC) ** (6 votes) --Semyon 12:48, May 3, 2015 (UTC) ** (11 votes) HORTON11: • HORTON11: • 14:36, May 3, 2015 (UTC) ** (5 votes) Traspes - Dianna Bartol 14:59, May 3, 2015 (UTC) ** (1 vote) Sithlent (talk) 15:21, May 3, 2015 (UTC) ** 7 votes. 77topaz (talk) 20:39, May 3, 2015 (UTC) *William Crosby (SLP). Main aims: exclude CCPL and allied parties from government, abolish Heretowship, work towards a socialist society, trial war criminals, establish new ministries (Science, Social Affairs, Urban Affairs, possible others), guarantee state councils in the Constitution based on democratic principles, introduce state investment funds, reverse excess decentralization, create a national health service on a national level, create laws and bolster policing to end the militia threat, introduce social housing to house the most needy in society, strengthen trade unions and increase the power of workers, reform education. (this consists mostly of Hoffmann's, Conroy's, and AMWM's goals) ** (10 votes) —TimeMaster (talk • ) 20:55, May 1, 2015 (UTC) ** (6 votes) --Semyon 20:58, May 1, 2015 (UTC) ** 3 votes. 77topaz (talk) 22:57, May 1, 2015 (UTC) Comments In case everyone's gonna vote for himself, I might consider putting up a candidacy too :o --OuWTB 17:42, April 30, 2015 (UTC) The CNP cannot support the communists like Maria nor can we align ourselves with UL as they are not clear on their aims and are too far left to merit our support at this stage. Further we cannot support the CCPL due to issues and declining relations during the campaign with some members. We will propose a moderate government, that many in Congress could support. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 20:46, April 30, 2015 (UTC) But AMWM is the best. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 20:49, April 30, 2015 (UTC) I have a reasonable but radical plan to put this country back into the hands of its citizens. To describe me as a communist is imbecilic fearmongering but exactly what I would expect from a party like the CNP. Sadly, Hoffmann's platform is the best of a meagre offering; he is the only candidate to offer any kind of changes that could influence Lovians' lives for the better. As for Abrahams' and Hardy's platforms, they are worryingly vague and most likely the cover for right-wing extremism. I expected offerings of this level of sophistication from our pathetic current crop of politicians but none the less it is deeply saddening that Lovia is so badly served by its so-called leaders. Shocking as it is to contemplate, I must confess the absence of the lily-livered liberals from the list of candidates is maleficient to our national wellbeing. Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 21:06, April 30, 2015 (UTC) @TM: AMWM is gay though :'( --OuWTB 08:32, May 1, 2015 (UTC) It says on her page she has a husband. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:23, May 1, 2015 (UTC) It's a cover. She looks like a dyke :'( --OuWTB 10:59, May 1, 2015 (UTC) I think I'm just going to let everyone else respond to that. :P 77topaz (talk) 11:09, May 1, 2015 (UTC) It becomes clear that there is no support for true progressive reform in this nation - a fact sadifying, yet unsurprising. I am retreating from this race, and wish to thank all those who endorsed me, in particular SLP, whose support showed uncharacteristic foresight and bravery. Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 20:10, May 1, 2015 (UTC) 20-22-21-3-7-19. With 92 of the 100 congresspeople having voted already, this is looking like a rather inconclusive vote. :o 77topaz (talk) 11:00, May 3, 2015 (UTC) :o --Semyon 11:45, May 3, 2015 (UTC) Due to the inability to gather enough support, I have decided to withdraw my candidacy. I jointly endorse Katie Conroy and Lukas Hoffmann. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 12:47, May 3, 2015 (UTC) New elections I request new elections. This will become one great mess Pierlot McCrooke 21:22, May 1, 2015 (UTC) Not true. If another government does not come into being, the old government will continue. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 21:30, May 1, 2015 (UTC) Maybe it'll come to that. :P I think the mess will tidy itself soon, though. --Semyon 21:34, May 1, 2015 (UTC) Well, it remains to be seen whether anyone will be able to get majority support for a government proposal. :o 77topaz (talk) 02:03, May 2, 2015 (UTC) I oppose new elections because we just have had them MartijnM (talk) 18:10, May 2, 2015 (UTC) Ministries Why don't we just leave the PM shit for now and first decide on who wants which ministries. Just sign where you like. --OuWTB 12:34, May 3, 2015 (UTC) * Monarch: King Sebastian I of Lovia (not debatable) * PM: a takavíhki person :'( * Agriculture: ** ... * Commerce: ** ... * Culture: ** ... * Defence: ** User:Kunarian ** User:Traspes * Education: ** User:TimeMaster ** ... * Energy and resources: ** ... * Environment: ** User:Bart K ** ... * Equality: ** User:Traspes * Family, youth and elderly: ** User:Ooswesthoesbes ** ... * Finance: ** ... * Foreign affairs: ** ... * Health: ** User:TimeMaster ** HORTON11: • 14:38, May 3, 2015 (UTC) * Justice: ** ... * Labour: ** ... * Minorities: ** User:MartijnM ** ... * Tourism and sport: ** ... * Transportation: ** ... * Science: ** ... * Speaker of the congress (nobody cares :o): ** :o :'( ** ... 004. Hoffmann II Government (now with much less conventions) * PM: ** Lukas Hoffmann (Kunarian) * Agriculture: ** Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari (Viva) * Commerce: ** Neil Hardy (Happy) * Culture: ** George Wrexley (TheMaster001) * Defence: ** Lukas Hoffmann (Kunarian) * Education: ** William Krosby (Time) * Energy and resources: ** Nicholas Sheraldin (Topaz) * Environment: ** Bart Koenen (Bart) * Equality: ** Katie Konroy (Frijoles) * Family, youth and elderly: ** Oos Wes Ilava (Oos) * Finance: ** William Krosby (Time) * Foreign affairs: ** Aina Sarria (Traspes) * Health: ** Justin Abrahams (Horton) * Justice: ** Charles Jones (4Kant) * Labour: ** Justin Abrahams (Horton) * Minorities: ** Martijn Mans (Martijn) * Tourism and sport: ** Neil Hardy (Happy) * Transportation: ** Oos Wes Ilava (Oos) * Science: ** (Semyon, when he makes a moderate MotC) * Speaker of the congress: ** Borya Hájek (Kunarian) Feel free to change the names as appropriate. The above list is my proposed government. It is designed to try and represent the spread of power in the Congress between the parties and allocate Ministries to those with the most interest in said areas and to make sure everyone has something they can focus on. This government is designed to not allow a lurch to the left or right in great degrees but to focus the best policies in the places where they are most needed at the current times. My proposed budget will be one that aims for a minor deficit, investing in the economy to help it grow, with the intention to pay the debt off next Congress. We shall ensure low taxes on the poorest and try and raise L$2-3 billion (from the current L$8 billion in the economy) to fund government expenditure. I will ask that States do not levy taxes while we rebalance and repair the States that are in most need. We will aim to devolve spending down to Ministries and States where applicable and encourage Ministers to take an active role in allocating resources. I will personally be introducing the following bills to Congress over the coming months as part of my main aims. They are listed in no particular order. *'Constitutional Reform Bills' **'Congressional Reform Bill' - a bill to reduce the effect of inactives on Congress **'Second State Reform Bill' - a bill to rebalance power between state and federal level *'State Investment Fund Bill' - a bill to introduce controlled economic investment by States *'Adult Education Bill' - a bill to introduce supported adult education, particularly education of the unemployed *'Trade Disputes Bill' - a bill to give unions and workers powers over their labour, and to regulate disputes *'Health Reform Bills' **'National Health Service Bill' - a bill to create a national health service, replacing state models **'Tripartite Care Bill' - a bill to ensure physical, mental and social care are integrated *'Housing Reform Bills' **'Social Rents Bill' - a bill to create a requirement for state and federal governments to provide social rents to the neediest **'Home Building Bill' - a bill to create a system of support for building, repairing and renovating homes *'Defence Bills' **'Firearms Reform Bill' - a bill to change and better regulate how firearms are controlled in Lovia **'Militia Reform Bill' - a bill to provide for greater ability to persecute insurgents and militia groups *'Education Reform Bills' **'School Building Bill' - a bill to create a system of support for building, repairing and renovating schools **'Educational Board Reform Bill' - a bill to create one universal educational board to provide official qualifications regulation Everyone who is in Congress will obviously be able to partake in these debates, and we'll hopefully - as we have in the past - come to a reasonable conclusion on each debate and create many good laws and reforms. These bills that I will introduce do not obviously mean others cannot contribute other bills. I encourage people to come to Congress with issues or ideas so we may debate them and see if legislation is needed. I propose this with the hope that we can get onto governing and legislating as soon as possible. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:03, May 3, 2015 (UTC) Discussion I am happy to accept suggestions for a replacement speaker. As I will only take the role if no one else is interested in the responsibilities that the role brings. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:06, May 3, 2015 (UTC) Looks good :) --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:45, May 3, 2015 (UTC)